Families use crisis loans for booze says Cheltenham Borough Councillor Paul McLain

“Another attempt to smear the poor and deny them basic human rights (food, clothing, shelter) by a Tory sociopath. Perhaps Councillor Paul McLain should ask his fellow Tory, Lord Freud, why he said in the Torygraph in Feb 2008 that:

"we should have recessions every five or six years and we are due one"
http://tinyurl.com/a2ms5gw

Does anyone think the ConDems aren`t doing everything they can to make this recession as deep & painful as possible?

If Chancellor George Osborne`s brain hadn`t been addled by snorting cocaine with hookers perhaps he would understand that austerity puts the deficit up not down. We need to cut off the supply of taxpayers money to this former Bullingdon Club member. He`ll have to survive on his inheritance from Daddy.
http://tinyurl.com/3o6grsj”

“Mens Rea - Guilty knowledge, guilty mind. Hence my submission on the use of the terminology fraud. In this country "he who alleges must prove" (with a few notable exceptions where we use conclusive presumptions). Proving fraud is awfully difficult. Look at the Serious Fraud Office track record!
This is an interesting aside but detracts from the alleged assertions of a County Council Cabinet Member. Is this a piece of poor reporting or a mix up of terminology and understanding on Budget Loans and Crisis Loans being just that - loans that must be repaid. Presently the DWP will deduct such repayments, at a rate set by them, from benefits that are in payment. Should a claimant not be in receipt of a benefit from which a deduction can be made then the loan is set on a negotiated repayment schedule. These loans are interest free. The criteria is strict as one post already puts it "jumping through hoops" is probably a fairly accurate description. The current system is where possible filtering out those spurious claimants. If the papers assertions are factual then the Councillor needs to explain his statement. Is he criticising the Government or DWP or attacking those on benefits who make what must be considered by the DWP to be justifiable claims otherwise they would not have received payment?”

“Glevumhelp - is there something you wish to confess to your bank?”

“Glevumhelp - failing to disclose you plan to buy something other than that which you claim the purpose of the loan is for would contravene section 4 as well.”

“Glevumhelp, "Section 2 makes it an offence to commit fraud by false representation in any form. For a representation to be false, the representation being made must be wrong or misleading, and the person making it must know that it is, or might be, wrong or misleading"

If you represent that the purpose of the loan is to purchase X knowing that you plan to purchase Y, it is wrong or misleading representation made by a person who knows that they are making a wrong or misleading representation. Therefore Fraud.”

“Thanks to SChelt for the considered post. Fraud is a strong term and since the Fraud Act 2006 Repeal of the deception offences in the Theft Acts 1968-1996
The general offence of fraud:

Section 1 of the Act establishes a new general offence of fraud, which can be committed in three ways: fraud by false representation; fraud by failing to disclose information; and fraud by abuse of position. These are set out in sections 2, 3 and 4 respectively.

There are two basic requirements which must be met before any of the three limbs of the new offence can be charged. First, the behaviour of the defendant must be dishonest.[2] Second it must also be his intention to make a gain, or cause a loss to another.[3] However, there will no longer be any need to prove that a gain or loss has been made, or that any victim was deceived by the defendant's behaviour. Each of the three limbs of the offence carries a maximum sentence of 10 years.

Section 2 makes it an offence to commit fraud by false representation in any form. For a representation to be false, the representation being made must be wrong or misleading, and the person making it must know that it is, or might be, wrong or misleading.

For example, a section 2 offence would be committed by a "phisher", i.e. a person who sends emails to large groups of people falsely representing that the email has been sent by a legitimate financial institution. The email prompts the reader to provide information such as credit card and bank account numbers so that the "phisher" can gain access to their assets.

It makes no difference if the representation is made to a machine or to a person. For example, a false representation involving the inputting of a number into a CHIP and PIN machine would also be covered by the offence.

Section 3 makes it an offence for a person to fail to disclose information to another person where there is a legal duty to disclose the information.”

“Glevumhelp, as you ask the question "if you borrow money from a bank do they ask you to justify or prove how it is used?" I shall answer.

If you ask a bank for a loan, one of the questions they ask is ......."What is the purpose of the loan?" If you say it's for one thing and then buy another you have committed FRAUD and in the terms and conditions committing fraud means that you get a free trip to court if you are found out, in court you will be required to PROVE how the money was used. Therefore they do ask you to justify what it's for and, just like the DSS, they trust you to tell the truth but if they think you haven't you will have to prove yourself.”

“I first picked up on this in the Gloucester Citizen earlier this morning. The story was buried in the paper and had no prominence whatsoever. So I went online to check This is Gloucestershire.
I'm glad I did. If this is correct then this gentleman, a County Council Cabinet Member with responsibilities for "vulnerable people" should stand down forthwith. He clearly shows no empathy with those he is supposed to serve. Further he certainly does not understand that a "Crisis Loan" is indeed a LOAN! If awarded under the present Government scheme it is repaid. If you borrow money from a bank do they ask you to justify or prove how it is used? Folks, if you are ever in a position that requires you to apply for such assistance then you will be in dire straits. You will need all the compassion, kindness and understanding from those administering the scheme. God help us all if this is to be placed in Councillor McLain's gift.”

“Not all poor people are angels and not all rich people are evil, some poor people are evil and some rich people are angels and vice versa. I have personally known people get a crisis loan to buy drugs that does not mean that I think all crisis loans are used to buy drugs just that some people have done so. It's a FACT that some people are not honest, denying that benefit claimants can be dishonest is just as inaccurate as claiming they are all criminals. Some of you who have commented here are guilty of exactly what you accuse Paul McLain of - being snotty and judgemental.”

“Disgusting comments - by Paul McClain - very snotty and judgemental”