Cheltenham Town fans forum - full report
CHAIRMAN Paul Baker called for financial investment as he addressed Cheltenham Town supporters at a Robins Trust fans' forum last night.
Baker described the last 18 months as the toughest time of his 14 year spell as chairman, saying "we need help" as the club battles against cashflow difficulties as well as the ongoing saga regarding suspended manager Martin Allen.
"It has been a massively difficult time over the last 18 months," Baker said.
"It is a hard job running this football club and the board need help. We are swimming against the tide to keep the club going.
"If anyone could lend us £20,000 or £25,000 it would be massive and would help my club and our club."
With attendances on the slide following the Robins' relegation to League Two last season, Baker criticised the people of Cheltenham for failing to support their town's football club.
"This town does not really deserve a Football League club," he said.
"The support we attract is not enough and the people of Cheltenham who don't come are to blame.
"We are struggling like hell to keep the ship afloat and luckily we have been given two generous interest free loans.
"The problem is with cashflow because we are operating within budget and the aim this year is to break even."
Baker was questioned as to why the club are facing cashflow problems once again after going perilously close to entering administration last season.
"We receive Football League money in October and April, but we have cash flow issues from November to February and we are clear by the end of the season," he said.
"We bank with NatWest, who have been very supportive and we have an overdraft secured against property but we need more help."
Baker revealed the club have lost £21,000 in gate receipts compared with this stage last season and commercial revenue has also dropped by around £11,000.
There has been no commercial manager employed by Cheltenham Town since the departure of Debbie Goodwin earlier in the season and the club shop, franchised out to former player Jerry Gill's company Pro-Tech sport, is struggling for business.
Baker also said the wage bill has been slashed from £1.4 million last year to £900,000 this season, which he regards as being middle of the road for a League Two club.
Skipper Shane Duff, currently sidelined with a long-term Achilles injury, is the highest paid player at the club.
A break even crowd figure of 3,200 has been set for home matches and the current average stands at 3,136.
"Some of the football has been poor and it has to be said the novelty of new players has worn off," Baker said with a wry smile after sanctioning the signing of more than 30 players in 13 months.
"The players were paid on time this month, but it was not easy and our financial director Arthur Hayward has done a fantastic job."
Baker was asked about the large amount of loan signings last season and he was quick to admit the club overstretched itself in an effort to remain in League One
"We gambled and gave it our best shot, but we had to clear the decks in January. I had a lot of sleepless nights last season," he said.
"The quality of some of the signings was disappointing. One of the best ones, James Wesolowski, arrived on loan and was being paid £2,000 a week by us, but he was injured early on and we had to carry on paying that money for six weeks, so that was unlucky."
The two loan signings made yesterday by acting boss John Schofield, Ashley Eastham and David Pipe, have been privately funded by directors.
Baker hit out at some of the comments made on internet forums and message boards, rubbishing claims that Simon Keswick was set to return.
"Some of the comments have been unreal," he said.
"I have read someone is going to buy me out and if they want to and put their own house on the line, they are welcome."
While unable to comment on the Allen situation, Baker praised Schofield for the way he has gone about the job in difficult circumstances.
"He is a good guy and he has made some brave decisions already," Baker said.
"He fined a player two weeks wages for not turning up to training one day and he has made an outstanding signing in Ben Marshall, who is the best loan player we have had for a while."
Baker said that the application for a £100,000 loan to Cheltenham Borough Council became "nasty", prompting him to withdraw the request and he said it is unlikely the club will be making any more loan requests to the borough.
The proposed move to the racecourse is still an outside possibility, but Baker hinted he would favour remaining at Whaddon Road and redeveloping the Stagecoach West Stand, saying he is yet to be convinced the move to Prestbury Park would be viable.
If the club were to move, an indoor football pitch which could be hired out and profitable would be part of the new development.
Baker asked that if the new stadium were to cost £16 million and the current lease on Whaddon Road cost £5million, where is the other £11 million going to come from.
"I remain to be convinced," he said.
Baker is confident the Robins will be remaining at their current training ground at Seasons in Swindon Village for another three years, having come close to agreeing a more favourable deal for the impressive facility.
He also revealed that Cheltenham Town would like to become a training base for one of the teams in the World Cup of 2018.
"We would like to pitch in with our training facilities and the De La Bere could be used for accomodation," he said.
"We'd have to provide media, hotel and training facilities but I think Cheltenham would be an ideal location for a team to use as their training base."
55 Comments
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by bob houghton, france
Saturday, November 28 2009, 2:15PM
“Hi Edward - you make a lot of sense and I see where you are coming from. My point was only that, in two seasons where there was little or nothing to cheer, the average gate was over 4,300 which I believe means that, in a moderately successful season with some exciting home games, an average gate of 5,000 was very likely. I do agree, however, that to MAINTAIN gates like that would be very very hard as those last 700 'fans' would be as quick to leave as they would be quick to arrive. I will be back for the game on the 19th December and will perhaps notice some improvement on the last three homes games I saw last season but I'm afraid that, when it turns round for the better I will either be still in France having to watch Rennes in the top French division, or the top local sides around me (about Bishops Cleeve standard and lots of goals) or, at worst, long gone off this planet that we call Earth depending on how long it takes ............”
by Mark, Bellingen, NSW
Saturday, November 28 2009, 12:45AM
“PB blaming poeple for not attending matches ?
well thats not exactly a rallying call thats going to get the fans flocking in is it ? whinging and bleating are more likely to turn people off
PB should take a look at the clubs promotional activities which are amatuerish.
actually the last time i was at WR the announcer even got the date of the next match wrong over the tannoy - which meant i missed the match !
quid a kid for every game would really grow the fanbase in the long term”
by steve, Cheltenham
Friday, November 27 2009, 10:39PM
“15-20 years ago nobody thought we would play LEEDS UNITED in the SAME LEAGUE. I certainly never, now we have had a bit of success some fans think were be in the premier league in 4 years.
John schofeild should get the job we all saw when he changed the tactics around to his style of football it works. OF COURSE ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN ONE GAME IS IT!.
Who eles will we turn to SC - He will not come back why should he, he got us in league 1 and now fans want him to wave a magic wand and make it all better. S IF”
by Richard lll, Cheltenham
Friday, November 27 2009, 10:14PM
“Cheers Edwards45 - I was as disappointed as you were with our attendances in League 1 - we were playing clubs week in week out that no chelt fan thought we would do... EVER - and yet, where did all the fans go?
I hope when the MA/JS situation is finally sorted out, some of the "stay away" fans will return - the club needs its fans more than ever this season.”
by Edwards45, Texas
Friday, November 27 2009, 9:51PM
“Bob. I'm right behind Richard III on this one and know where he is coming from. I dont know what this club had to do when we won promotion to L1. I too was very surprised and shocked that the home gates didnt go through the roof, we were playing 2 leagues below the Premiership. When we looked around and saw the crowds at the Millennium Stadium, we all thought WOW, this is big time for us, but when you come back down to reality and your struggling to find those fair weather fans who had a lovely day out at Cardiff announcing to be die hard Cheltenham supporters does tend to stick in the throat a bit. Even so I would have thought we could have ended up with 3500 faithful!! It doesnt help when you have loyal supporters(really?)saying that if MA or JS are still in charge then they are going to turn their back. I could never do that, there are still a group of us that will turn up whatever the situation, because I dont need to tell you what no fans means. We might as well support whoever is in charge, because moaning, shouting, whingeing and wailing isnt going to change a thing, but if there are those who are willing to give up their support and never come back, then I feel sorry for you, because when it does turn around I'll be there to see it, will you?”
by Richard lll, Cheltenham
Friday, November 27 2009, 7:39PM
“Bonjour Bob - Cheltenham were unlikely to ever have a "decent" season in League 1 (let's say mid-table), however, just the fact that we were in League 1, playing against much bigger clubs, with much more league experience than us, should've cause for celebration for the County - but it wasn't + i'll never understand why. For Chelt to even be in League 1 is like the equivalent of Peterborough being in the Championship - yes, in both cases the clubs are struggling, but Peterborough's crowds have gone from 4,000 to 9,000, Chelt's barely increased by 1,000 when they were promoted. Reardless of how well we were doing, the attendances should've been up towards 5,000 anyway.
There are plenty of clubs in Leagues 1+2 that play a similar style of footy to Chelt, yet they achieve much higher attendances than Chelt - it's because Gloucestershire is not a footy County - Football is 4th in terms of attendance behind Horse Racing, Rugby + Cricket. I think it may always be this way and becuase of this, the club will always struggle whenever they promoted to a higher league.”
by bob houghton, france
Friday, November 27 2009, 7:14PM
“Hi Richard - I know your response was to Tony but, looking at the stats, they would appear to support his view rather than yours. The first season in division 1 we finished an unispired and unexciting 17th (not the reason I moved to France but it was as dull as ditchwater) but the average home gate was over 4,300 - nearly a thousand more than it was in div 2). The following season was just dreadful and we scraped a 19th position by the skin of our teeth but still got over 4,300 average attendance. So, in two seasons in which the home supporters had little excitement or even a sniff of, say, a play off place the average home gate was over 4,300 which, I think proves the point that, if at any time during our time in div 1, there had been something to cheer and bring the crowds in, the average gate could easily have reached 5,000. What do you think ? Incidentally, in your list of five 'crowd pullers' it is interesting that you included the idiot Melligan who became almost as big a laughing stock as Damien Spencer. Wilson was by no means a crowd puller but useful neverthe less. The other three were as near as we have got in recent years and, tellingly, went on to play at a higher standard, althoug I do believe that opinions on Devaney and Odijaye were probably split 50-50, good and frustrating”
by tunnel vision, chelt
Friday, November 27 2009, 4:50PM
“Interesting posts and a perfect example of the point I am making. I have not heard of the kids deal for the Junior Robins. OK, I haven't got kids but that doesn't mean I should not have heard of the deal. I don't think the answer is just an ad in the press either. Get some flyers done (half price season ticets, deals for kids etc) and get that Whaddney outfit out on the streets of town with a couple of players. Use a bit of imagination. There's no such thing as too much advertising!”
by Richard lll, Cheltenham
Friday, November 27 2009, 4:50PM
“Tony - In League 1, we had a pretty good 1st season in 2006/07 + STILL no-one came along - those were days of McCann, Odejayi, Devaney, Melligan + Wlison. Those players left, but we still did incredibly well to stay up the following season, playing some MASSIVE clubs (Leeds, Forest) compared to Chelt - and guess what, STILL no-one turned up. It's partly that reason we we are back in League 2. If the support had been around the 5,000 mark for home games (as it should've been), the club would've been able to buy better players + maybe, just maybe, been able to stay up.
While you point the finger at the club + the players easily enough, the footy fans of Glos have their part to play as well - and they didn't.”
by tony, cheltenham
Friday, November 27 2009, 4:38PM
“Paul Baker is wrong to blame the 'people of Cheltenham' for poor attendances, but then he would be wrong to blame the 'football fans of Cheltenham' for poor attendances. What is to blame is the FOOTBALL. The club has had 4,000 plus attendances but the numbers have dwindled because of the standard of the entertainment (one goal a game over a season) and the appalling downward spiral of the last twelve months, and one freak result will not change that. 30/40 people turned up for the forum ? I know dozens of people who used to turn up for this sort of evening but now ? Frankly they couldn't care less at the moment and won't until changes are made and things improve. Entertainment + good football+ goals = gates of 4,000 plus. Dire football+no goals+alienating manager = gates of 2,300 and dropping.”