“The big problem with the CRB system as opposed to checking on criminal records is that Mr Plod, or Mrs Sad Social worker can place a comment like

"Not enough evidence but I suspect this woman of abusing her children" on the record, and you not only have no right of access or appeal, but you will never see it.”

“Antony, Glos
Apology accepted, everything is open to interpretation.
I do support the women, but I also agree there is a place for CRB's. I certainly don't think we should take their word for it, but just apply common sense to EVERYTHING.
I am just saying that flower arrangers probably come in at ridiculous o'clock, while the little cherubs are still tucked up in their private dormitory (oooh 'errr!).
And why all of a sudden are perfectly normal children classed as vulnerable?”

“I don't think everyone is getting this. This is not a worker in a busy supermarket who may see or be in contact with a child with parents close by, we are are talking about people who are in position of trust and who come into regular contact with vulnerable groups. Do we say to such people, it's ok, I have known you a while, 14 years, so I know you wouldn't? Because people have, and we actually have a simple tool to check if they have previous convictions and prevent people we know to have offended before getting access to vulnerable groups. If we don't do these checks, we leave access to children open to those who we KNOW have offended, when we could have easily checked. Where would you guys consider it not to be political madness? How long should you have known the volunteer for before a CRB is not needed?

Molly - sorry if I misinterpreted you. You seemed to be supporting the women's view and their view is that their word should be taken without being checked, on trust.”

“I have been reading these comments and find them all very interesting. The CRB system is not a fool proof system, but it is a system that is at least trying to protect not only children but vulnerable adults. There is a change that will be happening with the CRB process in the next few months, but I agree that there should be something better in place.

Volunteers are meant to be there because they want to be. I volunteered with a Brownie group and had to be CRB checked and really didn't mind at the end of the day I want to protect those children as much as the government does. As a volunteer you do not have to pay for the CRB check - in fact I believe volunteer CRB checks are a lot cheaper for organisations.

The rules are if you are potentially going to be in a situation that puts you one on one or on your own with children or vulnerable adults you need to be CRB cleared. If you are with someone who has already been CRB cleared then you do not have to have your own, because you will not be in a one on one situation. In the Cathedral which is so vast I do not believe they can guarentee that these women will not come into contact with lost children, or vulnerable adults in need of assistance. If anything they are protecting themselves and the Cathedral if they are CRB cleared. Knowing the Dean has nothing to do with having to take a CRB - it's giving people who visit the Cathedral peace of mind. Just because someone in the organisation has known you a long time doesn't mean that the rest of the world should trust you. Yes the system treats you as guilty until you are proven innocent, but that is the system and not the fault of the Cathedral. They are following guidlines that they have been given to protect themselves, their staff and their congregation. The system needs looking at, but a few people stamping their feet and potentially loosing a volunteer role they love is not going to help. The government seriously needs to look at the system and create something that works - but can you think of anything to suggest to them?

It is a tough debate, because yes as adults we want to be trusted - but as parents, or aunties/uncles, grandparents, godparents, whoever we are, do we not want to protect our children and keep them safe? I would want to know my child is going into a safe environment.

I honestly think that if any of you can come up with a better system you should write to the government and suggest it. It could only help change the system.”

“So if the cathedral's flower arrangers are required to be CRB checked, presumably all adult members of the cathedral choir - plus all other cathedral staff - are all also CRB checked before they are allowed anywhere near choirboys...???

I'm just as likely to come into contact with children (who might be choirboys...) whilst enjoying a Sunday lunch in a country pub with my parents. Therefore, should I be CRB cleared, just in case...??? Of course not - although the way things are going it might only be a matter of time.....

Are all supermarket checkout staff (and shelf-stackers, for that matter) CRB checked? Just is likely to have contact with minors. What about the various staff in my local newsagents - they sell sweets & comics, so must have to be CRB cleared, I assume? Anybody know, one way or the other...???

It is getting silly now. Of course there is a need to protect children from paedophiles, and therefore checks have to be made on adults who will be in regular contact with children, but there has to be a limit somewhere, or ultimately every single adult will have to be CRB checked, just in case they should bump into a child, somewhere. How would that work - when a child turns 18, they have to have a mandatory check? 99.9999999% would pass, but then re-testing would be required through everybody's adult life. So, every 10 years? Or 5? Or every 3 months...???

And with the CRB system now in place for a number of years, those intent on carrying out such disgusting crimes more than likely know how the system works, and therefore (most likely) probably also know their way around the system to avoid detection.

I've so far not had cause to require CRB clearance, but my work might soon involve projects in schools, at which point I will need to be checked. Fair enough, I've got nothing to hide, and being in a school during term-time means sustained contact with children, so I've no problem with being checked out & cleared.

But flower arranging in a cathedral...??? Come on, employ some common sense.”