“I didn't give much credit to the cliche, but apparently it's true. People would much rather talk about the weather than an issue which they can actually do something about. Over a hundred people. Well, I hope there are letters...

Incidentally, did anyone else see the comments criticising 'career politicians' who work their way up the ladder from positions as advisors (or campaign managers?), made by Dhanda's old boss, Hazel Blears, who didn't oppose his sacking?”

“You did get to ask your first question, though, Ade, about more consultation if I recall. You just didn't get to ask more, but you can do that here, and maybe you've already covered some of them below.

A bit of engagement on the sites I mentioned below, especially the Glo'shire Boards, wouldn't hurt, either. Philip Booth posts on those boards quite happily. I recall that the Green Party even had the Stroud Coffee House message board for a while, and publicised it on Eddie Etheridge's site, but did anyone bother to use it? Hardly.

The authorities are quite petrified about being called to account online, especially publicly, but if enough of us did it, they'd have to engage, or take the shame.”

“I was at the meeting on Weds, and asked a couple of questions of the panel.

It was an interesting debate, and well chaired by Ian Mean, even if he did cut me off in my prime for my first question :-)

What was evident from the meeting though was that the general public need more information, and I think that the County is open to a bit of criticism here - their historic public engagement has left a lot to be desired - I'd travelled from the other side of the river because they haven't shown any inclination to hold any public meetings in the Forest.

Personally, I feel that the County are following a well trodden and rather monolithic path here in terms of their procurement of a residual waste solution, and that there are far cheaper solutions to be had. This may mean more, but smaller, facilties. I am a member of the Green Party, but I'm also an environmental scientist, and my day job involves the consideration of new waste technology (although not in Gloucestershire.)

I would personally be quite happy if we had a small localised plant a couple of hundred yards from where I live. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest. But then I've been round loads of plants over the last few years and understand well what the issues are. Anyone concerned about emissions from a modern energy from waste plant shouldn't live next to anywhere that sees any considerable amount of traffic, or any industry with any form of combustion process involved, or where anyone has any solid fuel heating, or have a barbeque, or let off fireworks - all of these can give rise to proportionately far greater emissions than you get from a modern energy from waste plant. EfW really is very stringently controlled to the point at where emissions are less than a tenth from any comparable industrial process.

My message to the county is not what you'd normally expect a Green Party member to give. I want MORE plants built. I want more plants built at a more local level because by doing so you open up all sorts of opportunities to deal with waste locally, to cut down on traffic and other impacts, to bring home to people the real impacts of waste management - and to develop opportunities for district heating, or providing energy for industrial processes. Do this right, and residual waste management through the use of energy from waste can truly be the best environmental option for the waste in question.

The County are looking for £92 million of PFI funding to support their bid. The centralised facility they are considering as one of their options will cost much more than this if they go down this route.

There are other options. I am aware of an advanced thermal technology available in 8000 tonne modules for around £1.25 million per module (it gets cheaper the more modules you build.) To meet the County projections of 160000 tonnes required capacity could be met for around £25 million in cost of plant alone. Even if you triple this sum to allow for site costs, we can still provide several smaller facilities for much less than the cost of a single large centralised plant. These plants are also more flexible, can take a wider range of wastes - and can be used to burn clean wood and other biomass if you run out of waste. A much more sensible solution. This modular option is currently being commercially proven, and I expect it to really open up the market within the next 12 months or so. I am also aware of small-scale gasification plant at this sort of size range.

The County need to be mindful of these other options. The FoE preferred option for mixed waste (mechanical biological treatment with anaerobic digestion of the organic fraction) doesn't perform very well, as the outputs include a considerable amount of contaminated 'stabilised' organic residue for which the only real route available is landfill.

We need to bite the bullet, and accept that some EfW is inevitable. What the County (and the Districts) also need to do though is ”

“Da Man has spoken. I'd always assumed that you were a Green Party councillor from your views, Venk, so I was staggered to find you're actually Conservative :eek:

It was notable that when asked how many people had subscribed to the MyZeroWaste initiative, out of that hundred plus people, only a handful of hands (interesting mental image) were raised. I haven't either, although I've read about it on the Gloucestershire Boards. We still recycle all we can, though, and if everyone did, it might make a huge difference to the landfill 'sitch'. Or else, maybe we'd realise that our waste is a drop in the ocean compared to what the commercial sector produce, and bring pressure to bear on that quarter?”

“Councils should not treat the public as children, equally council officers and councillors need to understand the various technical, community, and commercial components of waste managements - and give the correct facts and have a well-worked set of solutions and forward plan for dealing the waste produced by households and business.

Regrettably, the Gloucestershire strategy is muddled, over-politicised and does not meet sound community, commercial, or environmental criteria.

Public consultations have been abysmal and put up jobs.

Facilities such as that for in-vessel composting being set up only encourages collection of garden waste, which then has to be treated at twice the cost, as it would be mixed with food wastes.

As pointed out by readers - recycling in itself means nothing - what matters is the amount finally sent to landfill. In this, the county and district officers appear to be oblivious of the various collection methods, which improve collection efficiencies and increase landfill diversion.

Regards the incinerator, once again - this should be taken out of the political pot - MPs and councillors and the wider public should look up the national waste strategy which calls for extracting energy from waste which in turn contributes to reduction of fossil fuels and hence a nett contributor to carbon reduction.

Modern waste to energy plants are quite clean and an efficient means of disposal of material left over after other commercially sustainable means are employed to reduce, reuse and recycle.

For a nation with its long industrial history, it is the height of ignorance of a few vocal public joined by politicians bent on making political capital out of the discordance and propagating short term solutions which are economically and environmentally unsustainable and dangerous for our future.

County and districts have themselves to blame for the misinformation and discordance - they have failed to provide sound rationale for their decisions such as for mixed food/garden waste collections and in-vessel composting - missing out on the benefits of lower costs and environmentally more sustainable means of separate collection and treatment of such materials and generating energy via anaerobic digestion.

Politicians should engage constructively with the public but they should first of all, improve their own understanding of the various issues instead of simply threatening the public with the bogie of landfill tax and EU fines to push through their poorly reasoned strategy.”