MP's views on the badger cull

“I wonder how the Tory MPs supporting this cull would feel about a weasel hunt, I'm up for that!”

“Incidentally OutofTownie, I don't know what the red arrow brigade have against you and I discussing FACTS in a non emotional and rational manner but hey ho. I guess maybe they prefer emotional haranguing which is not backed up by any meaningful factual information ;-)”

“Outof Townie, again, I agree with you completely. In fact, the efficacy of the BCG has been known for much longer than that and the, almost incidental, confirmation of it's appropriate use in cattle which was just a formality given its application in other species, could have been achieved a lot sooner.

I also agree that it could be pushed through with the right will behind it BUT, that is why I say it will not be immediate - because of an apparent lack of will.

Unfortunately this government have cut funding on TB related research and proceedures and it seems to me that they think in order to demonstrate "a will" they have to allocate funding. Given the drugs, tests and evidence are already in place we know this is not the case. It now requires political influence and negotiation skills within the boundaries of the EU so I really don't know what the hold up is suffice it to say there is a hold up.

If Brian May is to be believed the EU would welcome our packaged solutions and evidence and blame us as a Country for not acting and taking it to them. I say "If Brian May is to be believed" but given our track record I suspect this is spot on.

I honestly cannot see what is stopping the powers that be. Culling is so vastly unpopular and there is so much evidence against it I wonder what they hope to achieve by flexing their muscles in this direction? Perhaps they have actually now decided not to and this is the reason for the current U turn - so that they can push through the sensible options in the interim and then claim the glory for the cull "no longer being necessary" whilst saving face by not having to acknowledge they were just plain wrong.”

“Glosresident1 - Re cattle vaccination, we've seen vaccines pushed thru at record speed if the political will is there and BCG for bTB was going at a cracking pace before the last change of government. The propaganda from the pro-cull lobby would have us believe otherwise but it is confirmed even on the Defra current website and here's some of it:

"How efficacious is BCG in cattle?
...Licensing studies demonstrating the safety and efficacy of BCG have now been COMPLETED by Defra's Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency (AHVLA) and in JANUARY 2012 an application for marketing authorisation (required to place a veterinary medicinal product on the market) was submitted to the UK's Veterinary Medicines Directorate (VMD) for assessment. The assessment process may take UP TO A YEAR to complete..."

"Differential diagnosis of BCG-vaccinated animals from TB-infected animals:
...The studies to generate validation data [on the Diva test] in vaccinated cattle are expected to be completed and data analysed by EASTER 2012. If it is deemed that no further studies are needed, our plan is to make an application to the OIE (World Organisation for Animal Health) in summer 2012 for international certification of the test. Providing the OIE is satisfied with the fitness for purpose of the test, the earliest we could have OIE validation and certification would be the end of 2012.."
taken from http://tinyurl.com/8vqq7zh

The availability of a Diva test was confirmed by Defra's own spokesman Professor Glyn Hewinson in an article in the Independent this month, see http://tinyurl.com/9j25rcb

The powers-that-be are now intent on flexing their muscles rather than doing what's best for farming and we can't let that carry on.”

“Agreed Outoftownie. I firmly believe that vaccination of badgers is the way forward and, overall less costly then the proposed cull all costs considered. Vaccination of cattle should follow but we need to be realistic and accept that this will not be possible for a period of time because, regardless of what we'd all LIKE to do, we do need to pass it through the EU. This Si something the government should lobby hard for in order to get it done as quickly as possible. But I wonder if they will....”

“Glosresident1 - thank you for all the info, very interesting. In a nutshell, farmers are trusted to deal with many other infections in their cattle of equal severity to bTB, including infections which can be shared by a variety of domestic and wild animals. It is only because our hands have been tied by a set of outdated EU rules, making the use of cattle vaccine for bTB difficult, that some farmers have started thrashing out in other directions. Defra needs to go back to the drawing board because the 'test and cull policy' is causing more trouble than the disease itself.”

“Tim, there is no need to test and isolate badgers! Testing in humans is done in order to treat the disease - and let's be fair, the BCG programme of a couple of decades ago all but eradicated it in humans in this country. Badgers simply need vaccinating. If they have the disease prior to vaccination they will either recover and have immunity or, in fewer cases, will die. It is building up the resistance that is important so vaccinating means those not exposed will have immunity thus solving the problem. Once diseased badgers are immune or deceased the same thing is accomplished and in the end you reduce r0 below 1 and the disease cannot sustain itself. To imply there is a need to test and isolate all badgers prior to vaccination is just economic scare mongering.”

“You might also find this a good read from the WHO

In humans, the vast majority of cases of tuberculosis are caused by Mycobacterium tuberculosis. However, TB can be caused by a number of other bacteria, of which Mycobacterium bovis, causing so-called 'bovine tuberculosis' is one of the more prevalent and has the widest host range of all TB bacteria. TB due to M. bovis often occupies sites other than the lungs (it is extra-pulmonary), but in many cases is clinically indistinguishable from M. tuberculosis infection. However, patients with M. bovis often do not respond to the drugs commonly used to treat TB, sometimes resulting in a fatal outcome. Other, far more expensive, drugs are often needed – placing an added burden on health services. Very little is known about the share of bovine TB in the global TB epidemic, but sporadic reports of cases are received from many African and Asian countries and recent work undertaken in the United Republic of Tanzania indicates that this may be a substantial fraction. Bovine TB appears to be increasing at a similar rate to the total number of cases of TB, and HIV is the greatest factor for progression of TB infection to active TB disease. In livestock, particularly cattle, the disease causes lowered productivity, but seldom death. Like brucellosis, bovine TB has been largely eradicated from herds in the developed world by a test-and-slaughter programme.

http://tinyurl.com/32a4rk”

“Humans
You all remember the tuberculin skin testing you had before the BCG and any poor sole who had a positive test result ended up in hospital having loads of x-rays and 6 months of antibiotics?

Cows
If a cow has a positive test result equivalent to a tuberculin skin test then the show is over, off to the slaughter house and then land fill! Taking the cow to the vets for an x-ray is out of the question.

Badgers
If you wan't to test all the badgers (capture them, administer the test and keep them the required time for the test to show results) then give them the vaccine if they are clear.
If they don't show clear take them to the vets and put them in isolation, give them x-rays and treat as a precaution with antibiotics for 6 months. Go ahead boys and girls but I an't going to pay for it!”

“I would actually like to add, in case it came over as such, that I am not anti farmer and I have worked on farms in the past myself. What I am merely trying to say is that it is folly to focus entirely on one area and to forget that, as humans, there are things we can often do to help ourselves. I would far rather see some of our money (which otherwise would be spent on policing the cull etc) go on subsidies to farmers to purchase the improved equipment than I would to see it squandered on an ill advised effort to please a minority of people over science led sense.”