“Great to see that what used to be Painswick Library is up for sale for around £260k

Other than the massive saving on running costs, that's a cool quarter of a million + back into the taxpayers purse.”

“Wally, once again in the main I have agree with you. Of course, these debates only center around public libraries which as we have identified, are a waste of space and money. School libraries are a completely different subject and I wholeheartedly support that the funding should be diverted to them.

As to "Every large centre of the population should have a reference and lending library.", on that point I will disagree. The internet is everywhere already.”

“Ruby,

My phone is on a contract, I can't afford a kindle and my children bring home several books each week from the school library.

On Saturdays, we spend a while in the charity bookshops because we cannot afford to buy new books. But we do have access to books. I find that the charity bookshops have a far better range of books.

My elderly mother loves to get her books from the charity shop, as despite being a poor pensioner on the minimum of state benefits she takes pride in giving some of her money to charity.

Finally, I do value libraries.

Every school should have money diverted from the obsolete library service and fed into the school library so that all children from poor backgrounds can have instant access to books and not have to rely on their parents taking them to a state funded library. As it is at present it is just a few middle class parents who take their children to the library.

Every large centre of the population should have a reference and lending library.

Everything else that is currently provided by the library service is a duplication.”

“"I think you both don't really understand the value they provide."

Ruby, therein lies your problem, we absolutely do.

No amount of tub thumping rhetoric on the attack on "frontline services" in which libraries cannot be included, disguises the simple fact that libraries have far less visitors than the bus station toilets. The other fact being that the vast majority of council tax payers are being ripped off to pay for a "service" that should be allowed to die a natural death.
I note your comment on the X factor and can but smile at the exposed loser of an argument.”

“I must say that referring to canals and railways in the context of this discussion is really very odd. Transport is an absolute essential and improving the utilisation of current infrastructure is another essential.

Wally, someone is bound to pipe up that "not everyone has a computer." If they can't afford one, all they need to do is register for an OU course and a grant is provided to buy one. Free internet is as you describe, widely available.

I read on another thread that the cost per library visit ranges between £1.30 to over six pounds. This is a lunatic squandering of resources that could and should be spent elsewhere. Libraries are an expensive irrelevance and thus, a dead duck.”

“Andrew_Powell, Wally37 clearly you both don't believe in the value of libraries which is very sad. I think you both don't really understand the value they provide. I'm sure you can both afford smart phones, kindles and new books for your children and elderly relatives so well done you. The market cannot and doesn't provide for everyone. And if you believe books and learning resources are not important then I feel there is no hope for you, go and watch x-factor I'm sure that will keep your mind occupied.”

“"I look at facts and make up my mind." Excellent.
So perhaps you could explain by what stretch of the imagination libraries could possibly be considered a "frontline service" alongside (e.g) Schools, Police and the Fire Service.
Repeating the same lie does not make it true and If I didn't realise that you're actually serious, I'd burst out laughing.

By the way, the obsession with Magna Carta derives from one of your supporters not me but it does have a certain relevance to your position of attempting to rely on obsolete legislation.
As to libraries providing internet access, yes that's true but so do internet cafes. At Newent library I just observed every PC occupied by some little lad playing computer games, hardly "frontline" I would guess.

"Also just on the political thing, neither the tories nor the lib dems really have a mandate for these front line cuts." 59.1% of the electorate disagree with you.”

“Ruby,

The simple fact is that Andrew is quite correct in that the 1964 Library Act should be repealed or at the very least revised.

The library service has been in decline for many years and is now, not needed as a universal service for all. It is because it has been in decline that it has tried to increase usage with free internet Video and CD.

All services provided by the Library are provided by either private sector companies, or duplicated by state funded organisations or provided free by volunteers in society.

Books CD and Video : I get sent to my phone, buy in a charity shop or online as well as at Waterstones etc. I even listen to the radio and watch films on TV. As always the library in Charlton Kings was very quiet recently whilst the charity shops along the Old Bath road have been doing a roaring business. There are many new titles to read, with all the unwanted Christmas presents coming onto the market.


Free Internet for the unemployed. This always makes me laugh as I can get free wifi at lots of places including McDonalds. If I sign up for a free course at a college to help me get back into work I can use their free internet. If I am sent to a private company by the Job Centre, to help me get back into work, such as A4e I again get free internet.

Teaching youngsters to read. What do we employ teachers in school to do? We even have a Sure Start Centre again state funded that competes with libraries to teach children to read. As it is school libraries should have central library funding redirected to them.

Drop in for the elderly or vulnerable for a chat. There are many charitable organisations that provide coffee mornings for the weak, elderly and vulnerable.
So our society has moved on from the 1960's when we as a country were still recovering from the 2nd World War.

I fully support the need for central library's as a deposit for reference material, but not as an expensive source of reading material”

“Legacy of a bygone age, eh? Actually, what's wrong with that? Railways and canals are legacies of a bygone age; and yet rail travel is considered so important to modern business that the government is trying to build a high speed railway from London to Birmingham; and canals are so popular that old, disused canals are being dug out and refurbished for our modern age. The library service has changed, and will keep on changing to suit modern times. The exact use of libraries changes, but they are still relevant today, not outmoded at all.”

“@Andrew_Powell I think you are slightly obsessed with the magna carta! :-) The public libraries act is still relevant, not only does access to the internet not replace what libraries do, (why do universities still need libraries for research for example?), those who cannot afford internet access use it in libraries where it is free. Despite the worst efforts of BT there is still a high percentage of people without internet access. What percentage of the population have to regularly use the library before the state has to stop funding it? The arts are massively funded and are non-statutory and the percentage of people that go to ballet, theatre or museums is much smaller than use libraries every day. Also the arts are used by the richer people in society, libraries are used by people from all walks of life. Libraries account for between 1-2% of the GCC budget. It is money well spent as far as I am concerned. I don't have political beliefs, I look at facts and make up my mind. If the facts change then I change my mind accordingly. I am not left wing. You should visit you library again, ask the library staff what stuff they do for the community other than paperback ficton, I think you will be surprised. Also just on the political thing, neither the tories nor the lib dems really have a mandate for these front line cuts. Sort the structural deficit out by all means but we all know it could be done quite easily without cutting the front line, the problem is with politics on both sides the ideology gets in the way of evidence based policy. Things that should be cut are protected and things that should be funded are cut. Politicians work for lobbyists, unions and millionaires. Not for us.”