Underground house sale is legal say couple
A Cheltenham couple who are raffling their £1million underground home say they have breached no gambling rules.
The Gambling Commission warned last week that offering up a property as a prize in a competition could be deemed illegal.
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raffle: Tim Bawtree and Zoe Bawtree in their eco house
It says such raffles blur the lines between a competition, which requires an element of skill or knowledge, and a lottery, which is the preserve of good causes.
Already, the sellers of a £1m fantasy home in Devon have had to delay the draw of the winning ticket this month.
But Tim and Zoe Bawtree, whose dream project was featured on Channel 4's Grand Designs, say they have strictly followed the letter of the law.
Nearly 9,000 people have entered the competition to win the house at Oxford Walk by buying a £25 ticket and correctly naming the winning horse at last year's Cheltenham Gold Cup.
Tim, 37, said: "Since day one of this project we have been in regular contact with the Gambling Commission and Paypal (online payment ) to ensure everything is in order.
"The rules in place are good news for everyone because they will prevent people from abusing the system."
Tom Kavanagh, the Commission's deputy chief executive, said: "Lotteries are the preserve of good causes and cannot be operated for private gain.
"Prize competitions are free of statutory control under the Act and can be run for profit but homeowners considering such schemes as an alternative to selling their house risk committing a criminal offence if they cross the boundary and stray into offering an illegal lottery."
The couple built the underground -eco-home in the back garden of their Regency home and planned to move in.
But six months later they decided they wanted a new challenge – and in a bid to beat the property price slump put the house up as the prize in a giant internet raffle.
Tim added: "When we started this we had no idea how it would go. But six weeks on we are doing really well.
"We are over a fifth of the way towards our target and have already raised £22,000 for a cancer charity."
*For more Cheltenham news, click here.
30 Comments
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by 4real, london
Thursday, January 22 2009, 6:26AM
“section 14c of the gambling act means a houseowner is outside the legal frameowrk of the act.has long as they adhere to the skills test. the gc is only a regualate body. it role is to monitor. technically the couple cd purise litigation against gc. only an a preciding court can determine and techical define a competition. precendents have been set within gaming law. the couple are within this legal remit. gc cannot prevent the couple from continuing the new competition. no law expert. a law student.”
by sam, chelt
Sunday, December 21 2008, 12:27PM
“The Bawtrees have now stopped the competeion and are now running a spot the frisbee competition in it's place... I kid you not.
You couldn't make this stuff up.
Totally crazy.”
by sam, chelt
Saturday, December 13 2008, 3:31PM
“Thanks for thinking I am so powerful Crystelle...maybe it was The Echo doing their job and editing out abusive personal comments!!!”
by crystelle, london
Saturday, December 13 2008, 11:40AM
“sam also gets peoples comments removed from the blog if he doesn't like them!”
by sam, chelt
Thursday, November 20 2008, 11:58AM
“Mary,
Thanks for replying to my post.
The Bawtrees are profiting from an lottery, The Gambling Commission guidelines state that Lotteries are the preserve of good causes and cannot be run for profit. The Bawtrees solicitor has been told this by the Gmabling commission and they have also been warned about the consequences of carrying on. If you do a little research into this subject you will find this lottery and another one in Devon widely discussed in Financial forums on the internet.
These house lotteries are now saying that the Gambling Commission have changed the law AFTER giving them advice. Unfortunately this is wrong, the Gambling Commission cannot change laws, that is the preserve of the Government.
To your last comment "they deserve better than this"... Do they??
They built a contreversial house in an area of beautiful architecture, they had 90 objections to the plans. They appeared on Grand designs and stated what a wonderful "Eco" house it is, they borrowed a huge ammount of money and now can't pay it back......
Instead of asking a realisitic price for the house to get themselves out of financial trouble, they ask £845,000, a ridiculous amount for this house. They then can't sell it so instead of dropping the price, they decide they would like more publicity and throw themselves into the limelight, YET AGAIN.
If The Bawtrees are willing to go on reality TV and then court even more publicity, then they must also expect a little more scrutiny...people in glass houses and all that.
Go to their website, please read the Terms and Conditions. you might be suprised how much of the prize money they are keeping for themselves AS WELL AS THE COST OF THE HOUSE.
I mean no malice, but a wolf in sheeps clothing is never a nice thing.”
by Mary, Cheltenham
Thursday, November 20 2008, 10:07AM
“Sam,
Do you have a problem with the Bawtrees?
Or do you spend all day on your computer looking for trouble and being so unkind?
Your obviously obsessed with these folk and your fuming fire and brimstone and spitting bricks!
Why can't you let folk get on with their lives and leave them alone!
Life is too short!
Do you own your own home?
Please do not pre judge everyone and the Bawtrees are human beings at the end of the day with children.
No I do not know them at all
But they deserve better than this!
Mary
PS Ever heard of pots and containers!”
by sam, chelt
Wednesday, November 19 2008, 9:58AM
“I have been trying to post a link to a press release from the Gambling Commission, but am unable to post links on this site.
If you simply put House Lotteries, into Google News, you will come up with the answer to this whole Fiasco.
PLEASE can we have a proper report as to what the Bawtree's are doing.
PLEASE can someone ask some real pertinent questions about the house value, and how much they get to keep for "Costs".
Please can someone ask them why they feel immune to the Gambling laws about what is a lottery and why they want to be exempt from these laws.
The Bawtree's are running a lottery for personal gain=illegal”
by sam, chelt
Monday, November 17 2008, 2:38PM
“Was there another report from The Bawtrees in the Saturday Echo??!!
Does the Echo realise that another house raffle with the same solicitors as the Bawtree's has been deemed illegal by the Gambling commission?? The Bawtree's seem to think they are above the law.
...and Mary, I can understand your wish to own your own home, but The Bawtrees have marketed this lottery as a charity house give-away..it's not, they will be getting over a million for a house that is worth if but half of that. The government has ruled that lotterys are the preserve of good causes and there fore you cannot profit from them. The Bawtree's will profit on a huge scale from this sham. They have been given bad legal advice as the news from the other house lottery proves.
When will they stop this madness and sell the house for the real value and get on with their lives???
Oh and Mary, you can't plant things on faux grass and "watch them blossom", it's laid on concrete.....”
by Mary, Gloucestershire
Saturday, November 15 2008, 2:41PM
“I say good luck to the family purely because it gives me the chance to won my own home.
I cannot afford one in todays market.
Surely lots of folk could sell their homes like this, especially in todays climate .
I would love to win any house and call it my own instead of paying out rent for something , which will never be mine.
Never have a garden you can plant up and watch it grow and blossom over the years, not be able to decorate to your taste and you never know when your landlord wants YOUR HOME BACK!
Come on you folk who have lots of money out there!
There are two sides to every story !
Surely It is not because they are lazy or don't want to work some people have hard times and cannot get out of the rut they are in!
I would so love my own home.
Think about it your own bit of space .
I pay out a large amount of my monies every month all coming from my savings!
On a decent rented home one that I am proud of.
I also look after this home really well and I am proud of it
BUT ITS NOT MY OWN!
I cannot afford one or any mortgage as I am in my early sixties and now retired and probably never will be able to own my own home.
I know which I would rather do.
Have ago and see if I could win their house. Or any house!
So please do not knock me or any of these folk.
The owners may have been foolhardy or whatever but they are giving other folk and the charity a chance!
Good luck thats what I say.
Come on its Christmas soon!!”
by sam, chelt
Saturday, November 15 2008, 11:55AM
“I have been informed today that the Bawtree's solicitor has been told by the Gambling Commission that this is an illegal lottery. I think the Echo should look into this further as they have reported favourably in the past. Are the Bawtree's still selling tickets? Are all the people who bought tickets going to get their money back???”