Vera vows to be gypsies' voice

“if gypsies want to settle down they should buy a house like everyone else, otherwise keep travelling, if they want land buy it with planning permission”

“Lordgagas - No, same law for everyone based on need - but more even interpretation between bricks and mortar and other forms.

The new planning legislation is enabling - not controlling. Gypsies are recognised in law as having distinct lifestyles to be allocated accommodation land to suit their lifestyles.

Coalition Govt policy is no different in principle to their predecessor's. Although regional targets and top down directives have been abolished, it is incumbent upon local councils to allocate land, and put in place appropriate policies to facilitate planning to meet Traveller accommodation needs, same as for bricks and mortar housing.

The exact wording "'councils will have both the freedom and responsibility to determine the right level of Traveller site provision in their areas, in consultation with local communities."

In fact new planning is widening the definition of housing to include redundant farm and office buildings, boats, caravans, etc, to be converted to accommodation. Local authorities have to catch up in delivering housing via planning. Miss Norwood is therefore speaking a lot of sense.

Although the Dale Farm evictions have attracted much attention, the truth is that councils have been losing court actions and planning appeals where they had failed to allocate Gypsy and Traveller accommodation land to meet local need.”

“Bonkim2003

what are you saying, one law for gypsys and one law for every one else?”

“Lord Gagas - Historically there were nomadic people all over the world - Gypsies by nature were ostracised in all countries they travelled through and it has got into their genes equally they always had winter camping sites and travelled around looking for seasonal work. Urbanisation and greater organisations following the 2nd War and industrialisation/ mechanisation of farm work lead to losing their traditional work patterns.

Vast numbers have gone to settled ways of life - There is a considerable illiteracy and wanting to maintain their traditional ways and mistrust of authority (arising from historic persecution). I think in a free society people should be able to live in any form of dwelling they wish - as long as basic health, safety and general civic sense prevails - there is considerable resistance to expand caravan sites, etc, not just Gypsy camping sites. If you look at the new planning regulations - it is aiming to expand the definition of dwelling - including caravans, industrial and farm building conversions, boats, etc. No reason whatsoever not to allow people to choose where and how they want to live. Much of the local authority mindset today is a recent development - controlling public and telling them what is good for them. Not needed. Our planning regulations stem only post 1950s.

Given the severe shortage/high cost of housing, stopping Gypsies from getting permission to live on land they own is quite out of order = at the same time expanding bricks and mortar housing on virgin territory.Gypsies and Travellers usually are not dependent on local authority grants for housing whereas many authorities subsidise bricks and mortar social housing by several thousand or tens of thousand of pounds.

Not sure if Gypsy sites take much more land per unit than say the average house and garden or whether there is a drain on local authority budgets arising from Gypsy sites..”

“The outspoken former Stow mayor and ex-shopkeeper, who visited behind the barricades at Essex gypsy camp Dale Farm before the evictions, isn't afraid of courting controversy.

In her new role, she is set to speak about racial prejudice at a Crown Prosecution Service meeting to discuss race hate guidelines in Birmingham on November 23.

"I will speak from experience and sayTRAVELLERS have got to get more sites," she said. "I'm a Conservative but it's their fault.

HER words, not mine Lecorche”

“Ethnic Gypsies, Irish and Scottish Travellers , also New age travellers and travelling showpeople all come under the legislation and classified as special groups - but in planning terms their applications to be considered same as for bricks and mortar, but few succeed compared with a large proportion of bricks and mortar applications.

All these groups also are not that keen to share sites with the others. Dale farm residents - Irish Travellers. Those outside the pale resort to anti-social means as they have nothing to lose.”

“I think you've drifted off target,LordGagas.
Gypsies are usually Romanies and originate from India (ish).
This means they are a race that is recognised by the UN.
They are vastly diferent to travellers whose (alleged) ethnicity is a life style.”

“re Dale farm
"If they had not wanted travellers there, they should have done something right at the beginning"

they did!
and why are they called travellers, if the dont want to travell?”

“Sheba2010 - yes - sites have to be registered and managed to certain standards.They pay council tax and once established also have permanent addresses for income and other taxation. Contrary to popular misconceptions the Gypsies and Travellers are not generally benefit-dependent although they do take up school places, health and other social services as any others.

Believe it or not a large proportion of the settled residents in many districts get substantial housing benefit and council tax relief.”

“Playing Devils advocate here - while I accept that councils have an obligation to provide a certain amount of accomodation across the board - do travellers pay all the same charges for using the sites provided that other people pay for htier "council" homes ie rent/rates etc or do they expect to have them free of charge?”